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Help and Support => Archives => wattOS R9 => Topic started by: biffster on December 01, 2014, 04:30:01 AM
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**As you can see this information has changed quite a bit...please be sure and read the release information posted on 5-30-2015 that has the latest release information**
Hi all,
Thought I would share some early wattOS R9 information. Here is what I can tell you today.
1. wattOS R9 will be based on Debian Jessie. It is frozen now, and I have been testing for a while with good results.
2. wattOS R9 will have an LXDE and Mate' version with both 32bit and 64bit versions. (briefly looked at Cinnamon, but seemed a little to heavy)
3. There will be a microwatt version, but the details of that are not settled yet as there is more testing to do (and information). It will be 32bit only and be focused on old hardware/small footprint
4. The application list (core apps) will be forthcoming soon. (days not weeks from now)
5. The target release is late December or early January.
6. Its not clear if the upgrade path from R8 to R9 will be "rolling release" like Debian normally is, or new type install as in the past (with ubuntu upstream). I have been testing R8 to Jessie paths, and there is more work to do as early testing has resulted in breakage and dependency issues..... Obviously the desired path for some would be to execute an upgrade path with a script or simple commands rather than a reinstall, but no promises yet.
Feel free to ask questions here, or if you have certain "desires" :)
enjoy.....biff
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Looks fine to me. Personally I prefer a fresh install, instead of an upgrade. But I guess that will not be a problem? :D Though we better be finished with this one question right from the start, I know there is many wondering about it, why no 64 bit of the Openbox Microwatt release? :)
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Little bit disappointed to see we're staying debian here with R9 given the issues from 8 and installation problems of needed programs like skype, nautilus and other pae packages essential for modern use.
I do understand why the stay with debian though also and hope these issues can be worked through.
I'll keep an eye on the forums for further information on R9 :)
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I am glad you decided on the testing version. Maybe clean up the menu a little and do a boot splash (I like the one from wattOS R5...)
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Thanks for the replies all.
the 64bit openbox answer is really an answer of time and focus. wattOS evolved from one version one version to now 5. (32 and 64bit LXDE and Mate' and 32bit Openbox). Its easy to say that they should be the same (32 and 64bit), but the reality is that they are not. There are always small issues and differences found in the 32 and 64bit packages and setup. So it testing and effort more than anything. Also looking at downloads of distros by type, I am unsure how large the 64bit openbox would be vs the work. I honestly don't run any of these DE's daily any more (LXDE, Mate', or openbox). I use pure I3WM, but its a tiling window manager and has a learning curve to it. Its extremely lightweight, but the average user would be frustrated by it.
Cheiron and Leenie - I appreciate the feedback and your help over time for sure... :) . My efforts are to make this significantly cleaner and smoother than 8 since it was the first release on Debian....
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Hi Biffbaxter,
My main suggestion is to change the treatment of NVidia drivers on your DVD because it can cause a live session to hang. It did so in my case, both in the 64bit and 32bit DVD versions.
My desktop has a GEForce 7050 chip, the recommended NVidia driver is 304.xx. This is the default NVidia driver in Wheezy, a legacy driver in Jessie.
The DVD started up normally until it came up with the message:
cannot access /usr/lib/nvidia/legacy-*/nvidia.ids: no such file or directoryThe process then went on for a few more lines until it came to
(. . . .) Waiting for /dev to be fully populated ..... here the boot-up got stuck.
Luckily it is possible to install from the fail-safe mode, but this causes extra work. The internet connection won't be recognised -even though it may be up and running fine. As a result, the locales and the time zone won't be properly set, also the autologin wasn't enabled even though it was specified during installation. All this issues can be fixed manually afterwards (I did) but it's an unwelcome hassle.
Other distros use the "Swiss army knife" Nouveau driver for live distro and initial installation. This works with any NVidia chip even though it doesn't do it all that well. It is then up to the user to install the right proprietary driver, preferably "the Debian way" using DKMS. This is not rocket science, there is abundant how-to documentation.
I've been working with other Debian-based distros (like Mint LMDE, Crunchbang and PointLinux) this way for some years now and I can only recommed you follow their example.
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With wattOS R8 LXDE 32-bit, the Installation interface was not presented in Spanish even though Spanish (Peru) was selected for the installation.
Also, there is no Spanish .mo file in /boot/grub/locale which is rather incomprehensible given that Spanish is the second most common language.
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wattOS R8 LXDE 32-bit:
The current installer always requires a File System Format to be selected for the / partition. This doesn't allow you to format the drive in advance in the way you would like which means you have to do the following from a Live environment afterwards.
1: Backup the partition (gzip etc)
2: Format the partition
3: Restore the partition (gzip etc)
4: Edit the /etc/fstab file for the new UUID created when the partition was formatted
5: Mount the partition
sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt
6: Bind the directories that grub needs to have access to
sudo mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev
sudo mount -o bind /proc /mnt/proc
sudo mount -o bind /sys /mnt/sys
7: Set up the chroot environment
sudo chroot /mnt
8: Recreate grub's configuration file
sudo grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg
9: Exit the chroot and unmount everything so the Live system is back to normal
exit
sudo umount /mnt/sys /mnt/proc /mnt/dev /mnt
10: Reboot
Zzzzzz.....
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Thanks for the explanation biffbaxter, appreciate it. Two more questions though, of a small practical kind. When I enable the Openbox menu in the lxde desktop, would it be possible to have the full Debian menu there just as when in the Openbox session by default? Would it also be possible to have the run option (Alt+F2) by default when in the Openbox session with the lxde version?
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Thanks for filling us in on where things are going...
I would be most interested in an LXDE / Openbox version, and since most of my systems have 4 gb of memory or less, and some are 32 bit machines, I would hope to see a 32 bit PAE version.
I also would like to see a self regenerating menu that adds new programs added to the menu structure and a "Run" command from the menu.
I wouldn't be upset if there was no automatic upgrade from R8 to R9, and suspect it might be a lot of effort to get it to work.
Your R8 is very quick, and I think you should put that effort into trying to stay with that tradition as much as you can because that's the BIG thing that distinguishes your distro from the others.
Thanks again for your efforts...
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Hi all,
6. Its not clear if the upgrade path from R8 to R9 will be "rolling release" like Debian normally is, or new type install as in the past (with ubuntu upstream). I have been testing R8 to Jessie paths, and there is more work to do
One complication, Biff, is Debian's switch from sysvinit tot sysd, effective as from "jessie". This may make a fresh install the path of least resistance.
Keep up the good work! :)
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I am currently reviewing the latest releases from many of the debian (and non debian releases). Are there any applications that you consider a must? The basics will be there like always and the core applications for each desktop environment will be there as per usual, but want to make sure. I am reviewing the obvious list of distros over the next few days for a point of reference. (point linux, lxle, sparky, lubuntu, zorin, antiX etc)
tks...biff
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thunderbird for email client and vlc are priority for me..
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lxde version.
for me less means better. even if wattos is entry level distro almost everybody can install needed apps (some might be installed and uninstalled individually). I can see some issues of R8 release I want to avoid in the next one. firstly drivers. ought to decide if all nonfree are installed or not. do not know why some are arbitrary chosen. in my case any of installed driver was not appropriate. no problem for me to install but it's not elegant.
next bluetooth. it should be front-end for it. blueman? and of course it should be configure in right way for DE (so probable small repo is needed to keep maintained apps).
wattos should be more individual. at the moment it is just Debian LXDE (nice) remix.
cheers,
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to me...
LXDE is desirable much more than Mate.
microWatt should be a minimalized version of the full LXDE, without the LXDE desktop, and a super-light footprint desktop, like jwm, fluxbox, icewm or openbox/tint2, using light browser
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There is not the movement that is new in Debian-based distribution for the moment.
Lubuntu has begun to exclude some languages to maintain CD size.
A limit of the CD size seems to come over.
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The person concerned leads and pushes forward MX-14(MX Linux) than antiX.
wheezy-based MX-14.3 was just released:
http://antix.mepis.org/
http://www.mepiscommunity.org/mx/
A package of MX Linux is behind with the development of current antiX and is reflected.
The person concerned will make jessie base in MX-15.
but the topic has not yet occurred now.
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Ubuntu MATE is not Ubuntu formula flavor now, but the reaction is good:
https://ubuntu-mate.org/
There is a person evaluating MATE desktop succeeding GNOME 2.
Ubuntu MATE is conscious of Ubuntu of the GNOME 2 era.
Therefore this does not greatly mind ISO size. Current ISO size is quite 1G byte.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. Still looking and compiling options. Will be doing so for a few more days over the holiday. I will then post the first run of applications. It will likely be not a huge surprise as the goal is the move to Jessie and polishing and refining while keeping things minimal and functional and as smooth as possible. One exception being Microwatt that will likely have a good bit of retooling.
Still looking at a January release as indicated previously. (likely between Jan 12th and 18th)
Leenie and Cheiron - there are Christmas surprises coming your way. (really overdue) :)
Happy holidays everyone...I will be online over the holidays and watching things.
biff
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Thank you so much Biff. I am excited to try out the new wattOS 9. I will install it on a used laptop (yet to be purchased) so I can show others how nice it works. My granddaughter, Katira is 7 1/2 and learning about Linux!! She was asking me about the specs on her little pc just the other day....
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Merry xmas Biff, Leenie and others!
My gift arrived today Biff thanks in the post 8)
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Belatedly, some comments.
I support using Debian, and Jessie (stable). I also think that LXDE and Mate are the best choices for R9.
On installers : if still researching, Tanglu distro is product of some Debian developers, and their recent release has a new debian-installer (avoid, as they recommend, the live installer)
I'd like to think that anyone without a separate /home partition has a backup strategy, and hence there's no critical need for a rolling upgrade.
My view is that the iso should focus on getting the distro installed. Applications can come later, via synaptic or custom menu items/desktop icons covering key areas such as optional multimedia (players, codecs, ..) and optional "big" applications (Thunderbird, LibreOffice, Gimp). Where practicable, issues on Broadcom and nVidia should be addressed in preference to adding more applications IMO, and the basic install should permit new users to report the sort of detail support people ask for ... (so : inxi and/or hardinfo and/or ....).
I suggest Pale Moon as browser - lighter, not bleeding edge, essentially Firefox.
If feasible, I suggest that the default (but not only choice) config for users who choose to install on "full disk" should feature a separate /home partition. This approach makes later upgrades, and interim backups, more manageable and less risky. Only the smallest HDDs would be an issue.
microwatt has been a goal from waaay back, and I can understand your disappointment that it hasn't gone smoothly. I also understand the 64-bit version being first to be dropped - as I recall, microwatt was to be an even lower demand on resources than mainstream wattOS for those who could manage without the more elaborate desktops, fitting in with the notions of lower power, less resource wastage, keeping computers viable while reasonably practical. A stripped-down rocketship on a 64-bit platform with modern cpu and heaps of RAM is a different concept - fun, but different. IMO, of course. :-)
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i think it would be a good idea to use an older kernel then follow debian's i mean think about every single new kernel is for newer hardware. and use true gnome 2. over mate.
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also lubuntu plans to move over to lxqt whitch will require more ram. the best thing for wattos is to start using older versions of DE like q4os does. they use kde 3 series. i remember ubuntu 8.04 ran on just about anything i threw at it. even got compiz to work on a 32 gpu. nividia geforce 2 mx 200 if i remember right. xfce was super light too.pitty everything went down hill after gnome 3 came out. also use firefox esr channel, atleast you don't have to worry about your addons breaking.
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Because everyone likes pictures....R9 login and desktop - LXDE
(http://www.planetwatt.com/temp/login-r9.jpg)
And Base Desktop
(http://www.planetwatt.com/temp/r9-dt.jpg)
More to follow in the next week. :) - happy holidays.
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Thanks for the preview shots Biff and look forward to the next step
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Nice!
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Will be able to choose the init system we prefer to use?
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Looking nice biffbaxter, keep it up! @cusco... I doubt that, but we will see.
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biff do you plan to go with lxqt in the future? because if so it will be a big mistake. :(
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May I suggest the Numix circle icons set for R9! If not too late before the release, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for such a fine distro.
http://me4oslav.deviantart.com/art/Numix-Circle-Linux-Desktop-Icon-Theme-414741466
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Question... is it possible to install Ubuntu apps for version 15 into R8 or R9? Or should we stick to apps for Ubuntu 14.01?
James
Indiana
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@James McCoy
At first, please confirm whether the package is offered in Debian GNU/Linux.
Many packages will be offered in Debian.
- wattOS R8: Debian wheezy
- wattOS R9: Debian jessie
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Better be very careful with Ubuntu apps on Debian. It is normally seen as a no can do!
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The trouble that just carried out a procedure of Ubuntu using wattOS R8 in Google+ is given :-\ :
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111659895494557099209/+jeffryJEFFRYWITH1Ewillis/posts/GCpcsZHLio1
Please follow the procedure of Debian in wattOS R8 and R9.
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Now this WattOS rookie is REALLY confused! So... Ubuntu can run Debian apps but Debian was trouble running Ubuntu apps? :o
James
Indiana
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Ubuntu and Debian are separate distributions. Ubuntu repositories base upon Debian ones (sid version). applications might be changed and modified (if for example the system structure is different and for many different reasons). simple the repositories are not compatible. it's not good practice to mixed repos and apps. if you hardly need Ubuntu's apps, you should use just Ubuntu. sometimes older version of Ubuntu application might be used but the newest do not run (for example I'm using powerstat_0.01.20-1~m_amd64.deb (old version m) from Ubuntu).
well, I do not think it's confusing. there are two branches of wattos. the first one (up to 7.5) is based on Ubuntu, the last one - based on Debian. and as I can see the first is a little dormant :'( but the second - active :)
cheers,
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Hi all...just a quick hit update.
Still motoring along on R9. I am unfortunately traveling and at a low bandwidth hotel for the week, so uploads and testing is limited a bit, but after this week I will be not traveling for 10 days so expect some significant news and info over the next 10 days (some you also will be getting pinged to test a non-public release as before.)
tks....biff
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I've been using Microwatt Edition 8 on several older Panasonic Toughbooks since last summer (CF-M34, CF-18, CF-28) and very pleased with the system. Looking forward to Edition 9 when available. There are many, many old systems out there and not alot of choices for a minimal system that works well. Thank you very much for all your efforts. Best regards!
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What a surprise, but why not?
http://planetwatt.com/newforum/index.php?topic=296.0
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http://planetwatt.com/newforum/index.php?topic=296.0
Based on what I've read here, neither is a good choice.
https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/julian-assange-debian-is-owned-by-the-nsa/ (https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/julian-assange-debian-is-owned-by-the-nsa/)
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^So that is the explanation behind all the drama about systemd. ;D
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Hi all...I am not switching back to ubuntu upstream because of the NSA :) - I am an infosec guy professionally so I am not worried about any OS really...its the encryption that makes everyone crazy and with the recent news of most major manufacturers having their HDD firmware compromised (that survives reboots and reformats) its kind of moot.
In any case I wanted to give an update. I have not stopped work. I just have to much :) - So my plan with the stop and retool back to ubuntu puts us at sometime in March for a release. So expect some more news on that shortly. I also have work and travel and another project the last month that got in the way.
If you are interested in some leisure activities my other project is a fun thing...
I have created a game community that caters to the "mature" gamer. Its called greygamer.com
So head on over there and join as I am giving away free games every day for the next week. Also I have live twitch feeds of me playing video games and other cool things.
So follow on twitter @grey2game or go to www.greygamer.com (http://www.greygamer.com) or on twitch at http://www.twitch.tv/playgrey/profile
(http://www.twitch.tv/playgrey/profile)
This project does not stop my wattOS work, just delayed it a bit as I needed some fun time also to break things up, and this fits the bill. Its a brand new thing (literally opened yesterday) - there are windows and linux games as many steam games are cross platform :) - come hang out and play.
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i'm not too happy with ubuntu since they have gotten bloated with there os. but i found out that firefox is making things worse along with chrome/chromium and opera latest version is 64 bit only.
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btw i do have some wallpapers i taken myself to are public domain. if you want you can use them :) http://computermanmik428.deviantart.com/gallery/53364674/public-domain-wallpapers
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So back to Ubuntu it is. LTS only, or ? Hmmm, about this I feel very :-\
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wattOS will continue to be very lightweight. I build it from scratch from the mini iso, and hand select the packages and look over the dependencies very carefully to minimize bloat. It takes a while, but I feel like it helps, and why it always is a very responsive system.
To be frank, the Debian folks have not been the "warmest" when it comes to Debian related discussions and support. There are certainly a lot of good people, but the moment you do something that deviates from Debian standard, they tell you its your issue. In any case, I will post some progress here again in the next few days and some more info...thanks all for being patient, and even if ubuntu is not your flavor, give this a spin and see what you think...
tks....biff
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wattos has always been the fastest no argument there ;) ;D btw will it be LTS ???
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Will be patient , and will check it out. Got some ehm...unstable stuff to entertain me while waiting, so no hurry. ;D
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The reason I recently put a LOT of effort into getting WattOS R8 working was because of compatibility problems I was having with Ubuntu. Going back to the WattOS Debian base got rid of those and I still had a nice lightweight LXDE/Openbox desktop. I have read that upgrading from Wheezy to Jessie is normally a fairly painless process but I assume it won't work if I try it for the reasons mentioned above, i.e. the "deviation form Debian standard". The one upgrade I really need is libc6 as more and more software is demanding v2.14 and above, some 2.17, and the current WattOS repositories only support version 2.13, even in the wheezy backports. To say that I am disappointed with the idea of going back to Ubuntu would be putting it mildly but I do realise the world doesn't revolve around me.
It is a real shame that the diversity within Linux is starting to cause a Tower-of-Babel effect where if you move out of your cosy little corner within the Linux world you run into all sorts of issues. Diversity is more and more becoming fragmentation.
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Just try the Debian Jessie LXDE/Openbox, which will be the next stable release. It is already very stable, should not be any problem.
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blaze, thanks.
Where do I get Debian Jessie LXDE/Openbox? I haven't been able to find this anywhere. Do I have to install another version of Debian and then add LXDE as a package? I have read information about that but it seems that it takes a lot of setting up. Is there a small/core distribution of Debian Jessie like WattOS or just the full bloat? What is the best way to go?
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Where do I get Debian Jessie LXDE/Openbox? I haven't been able to find this anywhere.
just write in terminal
wget -c http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd/debian-testing-amd64-lxde-CD-1.isoimages are delivered weekly
cheers,
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what happened to your website? it was down for a long time?
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Hi there...not sure how long it was down. I got an email alert from my hosting provider and think it was up within a couple hours...did you notice it longer?
Oh and yes LTS for the release..
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^Thanks, the 8) choice. :)
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LTS works for me!!!
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atleast 48 hours :) and that's awesome :)
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Good news folks...release date is coming. testing has been under way for a couple weeks..... I will not reveal all the details now, but I can tell you this....It will be less that 1 week from now :)
Thanks for the patience...some interesting news about the versions and thoughts in the next couple days.
enjoy
biff
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what about having firefox esr as a browser of choice? :)